Respect, entitlement, and some things on my mind.

First, disclaimer: this is a post about FotC fandom and not the band itself, but this seemed like the appropriate forum. If it's not, I apologize;
I have a really remarkable inability to find what's right in front of my nose sometimes. Given that subject matter, I also want to make it as clear as possible that I'm not passive-aggressively mumbling about anybody in the room--these are general statements about a pretty broad fandom, and some pretty broad issues thereof.

Now that that's out of the way, thinky thoughts.



Not to get all HERE ARE MY QUALIFICATIONS FOR TALKING ON INTERNET on you here, but I've been fairly absurdly into FotC since the HBO series started, and really absurdly into the fandom for most of that. I know a lot of you cool kids have been around much longer than that, but alas, I am but one of those new poseur kids who had no idea the band existed before they were cool. But the ~community~'s been fantastic, and I've had a really great time in the midst of all the madness.

That being said, I gotta come clean here. Sometimes--not infrequently--fangirls scare me. Yes, that same horde of which I am a part, but it's not the general principle of enthusiastic ladyfans that bothers me--it's more this specific and, frankly, unnerving pattern of behavior that seems to keep coming up.

I mean, I will be first to admit that Bret and Jemaine are some fine, fine dudes. (I know that's a controversial opinion around here, but you know me, always flauntin' the shards of your preconceived notions.) But there's this weird, weird element that creeps in sometimes, this sense of something eerily like possessiveness, or, ah... ownership. And that's, well, creepy!

See, this will resonate or it won't, but I recall this picture that was posted a while back on LJ of the dudes hanging backstage with the Pussycat Dolls. It's a hilarious photo--the Dolls are their usual scantily-clad [url=non-expression-changing][/url] selves, Bret and Jemaine look vaguely uncomfortable, and the sound guy down in front has this look on his face like it's the single greatest day of his natural-born life. And we all know the guys can do better than that, yeah, but the reaction on and off the comm was overwhelmingly this weirdly vicious chorus of "
ewwwwww, those gross bitches!!"


I'm deliberately choosing a silly example here, but you ever see that pattern when people like spouses come up? Don't get me wrong, I concur re: grossness of said Pussycat Dolls, but man, there was just this venom behind it that got kind of crazy after a while. It's not just "
lolskanks,"
it's "
YOU GET AWAY FROM MY BOYS " title=">
" border="0"/>"
and... well.

Well, they're not your boys (please note that I'm not necessarily addressing "
you"
as in "
you guys reading this post"
). They're not. Don't people sort of own themselves? It's that same old specter of fan entitlement slinking in again, and damn but that's just not okay. It makes me feel embarrassed to see my fellow fans acting as if Bret and Jemaine owe us anything. It makes me feel doubly embarrassed and weird and, frankly, angry when they start Melling it up--getting all jealous and vicious and catty about their real-life fiancees/spouses/nonspecificlaydeefrends, stalking for srs, etc. etc. Everyone knows there's creepy people out there, but man, it's close to home.

Do people get that the character of Mel exists for a reason? She's not a silly idea they had one afternoon over cookies, she's a series of experiences with fans who don't respect personal boundaries, and she's really not someone we as fans should aspire to be. It's one thing to be a fan, it's one thing to fangirl, it's one thing to even facetiously play around, but... respect. Respect for borders between fantasy and reality, man. That's all I really want to see.



I'm posting this in a forum because I want to know your thoughts. What do you guys think? What does a fandom owe its subjects of admiration? What about vice versa? Where do you draw your lines? Am I being overly sensitive? What's the real cost, when the sneakers don't seem that much cheaper?

Do you feel like this community does any of these things? ???

I haven't noticed any mean comments on this board Everyone here seems pretty nice.

hellomyfriend wrote:Do you feel like this community does any of these things? ???

I haven't noticed any mean comments on this board Everyone here seems pretty nice.

It's definitely not anything about this community in particular, and I apologize for not making that clearer. You've all been great! It's more a set of observations about the internet fandom in general. I wouldn't have written and posted something if I had just a couple of people in mind, because it's not really in my nature to be passive-aggressive--it's brutal honesty or nothing with me " title="" border="0"/>

I notice this more on Myspace actually... I remember when that Pussycat Dolls pic was first posted and some of the comments I'd read. I, like you, was embarassed to be a part of that fan world. How could you not laugh at that photo??

I also notice this sort of behaviour in other situations having to do with the guys as well. Situations or instances that I'm not going to bring up but it's reasons/people like that that we've set some of the rules we have for this board. To keep that kind of stuff out of this community. I realised from being a part of other communities (not FOTC related) that a nice conversation about their their "
real-life fiancees/spouses/nonspecificlaydeefrends"
could quickly turn negative. Personally, I don't get it.

Amily wrote:I notice this more on Myspace actually... I remember when that Pussycat Dolls pic was first posted and some of the comments I'd read. I, like you, was embarassed to be a part of that fan world. How could you not laugh at that photo??

I also notice this sort of behaviour in other situations having to do with the guys as well. Situations or instances that I'm not going to bring up but it's reasons/people like that that we've set some of the rules we have for this board. To keep that kind of stuff out of this community. I realised from being a part of other communities (not FOTC related) that a nice conversation about their their "
real-life fiancees/spouses/nonspecificlaydeefrends"
could quickly turn negative. Personally, I don't get it.

I notice it a lot on MySpace, too, and I hate that most of all because that's just directly confronting Jemaine with the crazy, and man, that has to be awkward. (Y'know, on account of how they've mentioned how awkward it is?)

I think it's that nobody wants to be the crazy fan, but everybody thinks they're the ~exception~ whose pure, sweet devotion will come shining through the 48-point glitter text I WANNA SEX U UP!! seizure sparkle GIF.

I like to think that Jemaine and Bret can decipher the crazies from the all in good fun comments though. I mean, I have on occasion made a silly comment and by no means think that I'm one of those with pure, sweet devotion that will come shining through but I know that Jemaine is goofy when commenting people back so I like to think that he can see through it. I dunno, maybe I really am one of those crazy people haha. Though I try with everything I have to be as normal as I possibly can. They just bring out the silly in me! I'm pretty sure they know it's all in good fun though. Hopefully....

I am a fangirl in almost every sense of the word, but internet fandom scares the hell out of me most of the time. I tend to always keep the whole thing at arms length, not get too involved in fandom, and run screaming when the crazies get to be too much. ;
) Honestly, the fandom has me thisclose to calling it a day at the moment.

Their myspace page is so embarrassing for me that I don't even read it anymore. :-/

I do refer to them as "
my boys,"
though. I can't help it. But it's not that I feel ownership over them or anything like that, it's just a term of affection. Maybe I should rethink it.

If I was a celebrity and someone was making rude comments about my loved ones, friends, family, spouse, etc, I'd be pissed ... and I wouldn't give a damn if I lost that person as a fan.

sunnyringo wrote:I am a fangirl in almost every sense of the word, but internet fandom scares the hell out of me most of the time. I tend to always keep the whole thing at arms length, not get too involved in fandom, and run screaming when the crazies get to be too much. ;
) Honestly, the fandom has me thisclose to calling it a day at the moment.

Their myspace page is so embarrassing for me that I don't even read it anymore. :-/

I do refer to them as "
my boys,"
though. I can't help it. But it's not that I feel ownership over them or anything like that, it's just a term of affection. Maybe I should rethink it.

I dunno if it's so much the possessive pronoun as it is the difference between affectionate investment and weird possessive entitlement. I call them "
my boys"
sometimes, so if that's wrong, we're both wrong.

I've had to up to here with fandom in a lot of ways, lately, too... hence the long rambly post about how I'm afraid of the internet. ([url=I'M AFRAID OF THE INTERNET!][/url] I'M AFRAID OF THE WOOORLD! I'M AFRAID I CAN'T-- HELP IT! NA NA NA, NA NA)

I think empathy is the most important thing for anyone to remember. If you were in their position, how would you feel?

There are lots of things I'd find funny / silly and other things I'd find scary / creepy. Every fan should keep her behavior out of Column "
B."
Simple.

hellomyfriend wrote:I think empathy is the most important thing for anyone to remember.

This should be the new FOTC fan's motto.

Amily wrote:I notice this more on Myspace actually... I remember when that Pussycat Dolls pic was first posted and some of the comments I'd read. I, like you, was embarassed to be a part of that fan world. How could you not laugh at that photo??

I also notice this sort of behaviour in other situations having to do with the guys as well. Situations or instances that I'm not going to bring up but it's reasons/people like that that we've set some of the rules we have for this board. To keep that kind of stuff out of this community. I realised from being a part of other communities (not FOTC related) that a nice conversation about their their "
real-life fiancees/spouses/nonspecificlaydeefrends"
could quickly turn negative. Personally, I don't get it.

I was quite embarrassed by the comments on that picture as well. Some FOTC are really,really lame. (Maybe those people think I'm lame too...but oh well).

I don't get it either. Their spouses/friends/etc. all seem like really cool people,and they're all gorgeous! I don't see any reason for negativity.

+ It's actually sad that basically every crazy weirdo FOTC fan I've seen on myspace or whatever is nothing compared to how crazy and weird other fanbases are (I'm just glad it's not like the Jonas Brothers and we don't have "
Mrs. _____ (insert last name of preferred Conchord here)"
.

Hahaha Haley... ohhhhhh we have that on MS. I've seen it. " title="" border="0"/>

OK here's my take on it. A few months back, I left a comment on the guys MySpace which was purely in jest and, I thought, in good fun. I actually received personal messages from other fans, most of whom also thought what I said was funny, but a few from fans who thought I was being disrespectful. This upset me;
I immediately wrote a personal message to Jemaine (for some unknown reason he reads my crappy messages;
I'm very blessed), apologizing and trying to explain that I meant no disrespect and I was just kidding around. You guys need to understand that I was truly upset, nearly in tears;
I don't like causing controversy.

Jemaine, bless his dear heart, wrote back the same day and said (his exact words, which I don't normally share with others because it's nobody else's business but in this case I don't think he'd mind), "
Don't worry about them. You should be able to joke with a joke band, shouldn't you?"
End of quote. And before everyone starts jumping on me, no I'm not making this up, and no, he doesn't write to me all the time. Very infrequently, as a matter of fact, but it is my most treasured message from him because he was telling me IT'S OKAY TO KID AROUND WITH HIM.

Moral of the very long story - I've never looked back since then. He said it's okay to joke with them, and that's good enough for me. ******BUT******* total agreement that there are certain aspects of their personal lives, and we all know what I'm talking about, that need to be left ALONE in a public forum. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Okay, I'm going back to mostly lurking and not saying much. I just felt this needed to be said. He doesn't want people to be afraid to joke around with them;
just use your brain and know the difference between "
all in good fun"
and "
you're scaring me"
.

I know of someone else getting a similar message from Jemaine once about this same subject... I can't remember who got it so I apologize to that person if they did not want this shared but I really do think Jemaine gets it... he wrote back to someone saying something along the lines of "
People need to lighten up."
I wish I could remember the details, person who got this, if you're here care to weigh in??

Amily wrote:Hahaha Haley... ohhhhhh we have that on MS. I've seen it. " title="" border="0"/>

What? Ahhh jeez. *hangs head in shame*

carolbrown wrote:OK here's my take on it. A few months back, I left a comment on the guys MySpace which was purely in jest and, I thought, in good fun. I actually received personal messages from other fans, most of whom also thought what I said was funny, but a few from fans who thought I was being disrespectful. This upset me;
I immediately wrote a personal message to Jemaine (for some unknown reason he reads my crappy messages;
I'm very blessed), apologizing and trying to explain that I meant no disrespect and I was just kidding around. You guys need to understand that I was truly upset, nearly in tears;
I don't like causing controversy.

Jemaine, bless his dear heart, wrote back the same day and said (his exact words, which I don't normally share with others because it's nobody else's business but in this case I don't think he'd mind), "
Don't worry about them. You should be able to joke with a joke band, shouldn't you?"
End of quote. And before everyone starts jumping on me, no I'm not making this up, and no, he doesn't write to me all the time. Very infrequently, as a matter of fact, but it is my most treasured message from him because he was telling me IT'S OKAY TO KID AROUND WITH HIM.

Moral of the very long story - I've never looked back since then. He said it's okay to joke with them, and that's good enough for me. ******BUT******* total agreement that there are certain aspects of their personal lives, and we all know what I'm talking about, that need to be left ALONE in a public forum. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Okay, I'm going back to mostly lurking and not saying much. I just felt this needed to be said. He doesn't want people to be afraid to joke around with them;
just use your brain and know the difference between "
all in good fun"
and "
you're scaring me"
.

That's awesome...I'm glad he knows when people are joking and such.

thedistantfuture wrote:

Amily wrote:Hahaha Haley... ohhhhhh we have that on MS. I've seen it. " title="" border="0"/>

What? Ahhh jeez. *hangs head in shame*

Yeah. I don't have the heart to tell those girls I'm the real Mrs. Bret McKenzie ... they'd be crushed. " title="" border="0"/>

hellomyfriend wrote:

thedistantfuture wrote:
What? Ahhh jeez. *hangs head in shame*

Yeah. I don't have the heart to tell those girls I'm the real Mrs. Bret McKenzie ... they'd be crushed. " title="" border="0"/>

" title="" border="0"/> You could say you're the real Mrs.Kevin Jonas instead. ;
)

Never take life too seriously ;
)... Everything said here is just in good fun... as well as in their comments... especially Arj's... except that i really meant it " title="" border="0"/>

yea...the girly fandom bothers me too.I mean...I am a girl and I am a fan and I am fully in love with Jemaine and Bret. I don't own them or care to say that they are 'mine' in a sense...but, I do love to share my love with all of you. I try to stay away from the people that have crossed the line from 'super fan' to 'crazy fan' which I tend to find in some myspace comments. I really can't read all that stuff anymore...I use to go on myspace in fun to read everyone's crazy comments but I just can't anymore...it bothers me to know that people don't get that there is a line that can be crossed.

and I love what nikki said too about Empathy...that is me all the way they guys have lives and they give us this special gift and we have to respect each one.

I don't think you have offended anyone in any way here...I mean, sometimes things need to be said. There really is a difference and I think the people that are associated with this board get that...we just don't take it as far as those others that are only in the hype for the short time they guys are in the spotlight. Speaking for myself, I will love the boys no matter what they do...and I will forever support them. ;
)

hellomyfriend wrote:If I was a celebrity and someone was making rude comments about my loved ones, friends, family, spouse, etc, I'd be pissed ... and I wouldn't give a damn if I lost that person as a fan.

I agree!
Now, I know, I'm pretty "
dirty"
on MS. People who know me know that's my sense of humor (heck, I hold back most of the time. lol). And I'm sure the guys get it, too (well, I hope they do). Hence all the winks ;
)
But, there are some people where you KNOW they are dead serious...and THAT is scary.

I've enjoyed reading this discussion. I agree that empathy is always our friend when deciding what does or doesn't cross a line.

carolbrown, I'm so glad you shared your experience, and I don't think anybody here would accuse you of making it up. It's a relief to me to know that it's okay with them if we get a little silly. Also, although of course you're free to lurk/not say much, I hope you feel comfortable enough to share as much as you like. Not only about this subject but just in general.

trashytrishy wrote:
I'm pretty "
dirty"
on MS. People who know me know that's my sense of humor (heck, I hold back most of the time. lol). And I'm sure the guys get it, too (well, I hope they do). Hence all the winks ;
)

We should get along quite well ;
)